Because I'm not (in the slightest), and I *almost* feel hypocritical singing along, but then think, they're just words, right?
I can't be the only one who thinks this way!
(P.S. I'm in no way judging anyone for their beliefs - am very respectful where that is concerned).
I am completely non-religious as well. Despite the references in the lyrics, I have never heard Mikel or anyone else in the band speak about religion at all. I have no idea whether they are actually religious or not, which is how it should be in my opinion.
That's true, I haven't either.
I'm not at all religious, and just like you singing along to some of the lines feels a bit awkward sometimes. But meh, the music is too great to nót sing along to.
I used to be agnostic, but when our youngest child died, I just became .... mad. So the references are awkward/uncomfortable for me also. They kinda trigger the "mad" feeling. So, no, you're not alone. I notice every reference, probably more than others would, because of my own circumstances.
the "in the eyes of God" type lyrics do sit a little weird with me, too, because I don't really _believe_ in that sense. I would consider myself a non-practicing pagan, so the monotheistic power in the sky doesn't really mean much to me. But I try not to question those lyrics too much, I kind of just think of them as part of the character in the song's story.
I'm atheist through and through but I've never been uncomfortable with the lyrics. While I may not believe in them, I can still understand the concepts, what they represent, and what they mean to people. I would only feel uncomfortable if I felt it was slanderous because, frankly, I'm uncomfortable with any form of hate or discrimination.
But that's not what's happening with these songs. Its not hurting anything, so what makes you think that you have less of a right to use certain words than other people? What gives a certain demographic more entitlement to words? This is OUR language and I don't think we should feel uncomfortable using it like this.
But I guess, words are words and how you take them/your perspective of them is entirely up to you.
And that white dress- that is almost exactly how I feel. I'm atheist, but never once have I been uncomfortable with the lyrics. I actually like them, to be honest. I think it shows that he is writing to write songs and to express things in his way, not to try to please people and do what people want/think is right. But that's just how I feel.
when someone attacks my religion, i suddenly become very religious. lol.
But i'd say im...i dunno. Not crazy religious, but i definitley believe. and i think the lyrics could be taken more metaphorically rather than a direct allusion to religion...
I'm one who believes there is often a big difference between "religion" and spirituality. When I heard the lyrics I felt the song was more about the spirituality of life and hope for something greater than ourselves, rather than "beating on the chest" about religion.
But then again, it might just be a song to entertain us!
@dragonjim - I agree, I really don't feel that religion is being shoved down our throats by way of these songs. For me it is a personal issue I suppose and if I learn to see it as something different to religion I am way more comfortable with it. It's like any form of art - everyone interprets it differently.
It's really interesting all the different perceptions, so I thank you for your replies as it makes me see a different perspective which is always a good thing in my opinion.
I myself am rather agnostic. With that said, religious undertones can get under my skin very easily. Something about it can feel self righteous and arrogant. Creed comes to mind. But in the case of TATE, I honestly see them using religious undertones as a writing device. Maybe even as a means to an end? Mikel has a gift with the English language. He has a way of spinning these themes in a way to tell a story rather than express a certain view point.
Another band that comes to mind that uses this device is "Brand New". One of my favorite songs is "Jesus Christ". Jesse Lacey too uses religion as a foundation in that song, but it comes off more as a fear of death and uncertainty of the after life. And I think at the end of the day, none of us truly know any better than the next.
So I guess where I'm getting at is....it's all about context? I dunno, I'm half asleep. hahahah Great discussion though.
Yeah, like dragonjim (fantastic name, by the way) said, he's not trying to push religion or anything. He's not even saying he supports or believes in it. It's just what belongs in the song. My friend had an issue similar to this. It had something to do with inconsistencies within the album as whole. Like mentioning virgin brides and...something...damn, I just can't remember exactly. I'll come back to it...
Anyway, my argument was that the album isn't one linear storyline that should have an exact plot. It's about different experiences and different subjects and therefore, the lyrics shouldn't all match up because this is about the real world and every experience is unique. Some words will fit perfectly with what he's trying to get across in one song but have no context in another. It's like that.
If religion or religious terms have to do with what he is singing about, how could he omit them? And sometimes they're a really integral part of the overall outcome of the song. If he didn't sing about it, then...well, then that would be like singing about Harry Potter without mentioning the magic, I guess.
im pretty sure he either believes in god or is on the fence.
i have a few atheist friends, and i can't imagine them every singing/writing about god in the same light mikel does. i mean, they might mention god, but i doubt they would paint god in the same light that mikel does.
then again, my experience might be limited, so what do the atheist (not agnostics) in this thread think? would you guys/gals every write about god in the same light mikel does?
edit: i did notice a few of you guys felt awkward just singing them. imagine writing them.
Interesting, and a good point... no idea what Mikel's beliefs are and (rightly or wrongly) really didn't consider his beliefs important when starting this discussion but you're right, it's like he's trying to work things out just like the other things in his life!
I'm atheist, I guess? I don't really like to label myself - I have absolutely no issue with religion and would never actively oppose it but have zero belief in any God or any written word as far as religion is concerned. If I were at all talented at writing (which I'm not), I wouldn't include anything about personal belief in there but that's not to say I haven't thought about other people's beliefs so if I was writing a book for example, depending on the subject matter I suppose it might be something that came up at some point!
Well, as an atheist, I wouldn't completely rule out including God in anything I wrote. I mean, if I felt like it fit in, I would add it, but I wouldn't actively try to include it.
Another thing to consider- I know quite a few religous people (my mother included :P) who find the phrase "goddamn" very offensive, yet it I've heard it from Mikel atleast a few times, not to mention the fact that it is included in "Tokyo Radio", although that might depend on the person more than the fact of being religous/not religous.
I get quite conscious of the words I use in speech - would not like to offend anyone. I don't know if I'm over thinking things by doing that but that's me haha! I don't say "oh my God" for example, or anything like "goddamn" or "Jesus Christ" etc. For me, there are plenty of other ways to express myself which fit with my way of thinking and with my lack of belief hehe.
I'm an atheist, but I reference God/Jesus/etc almost constantly.
I don't think that religious words necessarily have to be linked to specific religious imagery/thoughts any more. It's hard to explain what I mean, but it's like... if I was religious, what feelings would those words, in that context, conjour up? Just because I'm not religious, in the context of a song or a book or a film - the words can conjour the same emotions, without religion actually coming into it.
For example, the Springsteen song My City of Ruins. Much of that has a lot of religion-based wording in it, the that wording is designed to be rousing and inspiring & whatever. Despite the fact that I have no feelings towards 'god', the use of the words in the context works because of the abstract concepts of hope and joy and redemption that the words have come to represent in our society, not because they relate to a specific, literal, actual "God".
...see what I mean? ......probably not.
I suppose I'm kind of agreeing with others who have said that religion is not the same as spirituality... although I would not consider myself spiritual either.
I think also that references to other people having belief can be powerful in itself. Just because I don't belive myself, the idea of having absolute faith and having that faith be rewarded is kind of a romantic & beautiful concept. I mean, just like a lot of other romantic & beautiful concepts, it's fictional, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it has no power or emotion attatched.
Ah, who knows?
I'm a little confused with the term religious... I'm a christian, as in I believe in god... I hardly go to church though, and i'm not a shove it in your face christian.
I think the lyrics in this song shouldn't be awkward for the atheists, because it is just mikel's lyrics and his feelings. And his feelings are so perfectly written and sang... and relatable for some
I think we all have spiritual feelings, though not religious...and we can all relate to the lyricsNow that
Interesting views. I'm not religious at all and I would even say that religion is so not a part of my life that when I hear the word God, it's just another word to me. I like the views of That White Dress. I feel those lyrics more as spirituality, a higher power and I do believe in that.
Plus, God is a very creative source that is easily exploited. I think about The Pixies and Black Francis who uses religious references at all times. It's all very powerful!
But if you ask me, Mikel believes in god...
Mikel has said enough times that his songs are autobiographical. But at the same time, he's said they're stories and not 100% true, either. Like Z said, I feel like it's more about the metaphor. Plus, it's like curse words, my mom freaks out if she hears me curse (and I'm a grown woman of 40!) and I tell her, they're just words! It's like if you stub your toe, it doesn't convey the same emotion if you say, "Darn it!" It just feels so much more satisfying to let out a mighty "Fuck!" or something similar. Mikel's references to God or what have you help convey the emotion in the song. I don't think Mikel is pushing religion in the least.
I also believe that religion is totally different than spirituality.
The only one that bothers me a bit is the "And we all had one hope - there was someone looking down". It sounds a bit too much like we all hope that GOD is looking down - which I don't hope that in the least. I do hope that others who have passed on before me are perhaps looking over me, but the "down" in that sentence kind of implies heaven... which I don't really believe in.
I do think based off the lyrics we have seen released so far that he has some spirituality. But I think we all do to some small degree at least - even the most "non religious" of us all.
I agree, but as Christina said, spirituality and religion are really two different things.
I think I'll always be confused about this kind of thing haha! I just really enjoy their songs and need to get over the silly feelings sometimes.
curiouser and curiouser, atheist, agnostic, pagan, christain, buddhist, it does not matter. The song is how you interpret it, its how you feel, its about the emotions it inspires in you, and if you are so opposed to the idea of a higher power, ANY higher power, that you feel awkward singing the songs? Re-evaluate, look for references in your own life, not necessarily God almighty, but your god, or your strength, or your power. He rights the songs, you listen and interpret how you want, and go with it, but never restrict your feelings because your afraid of what youthink they are trying to say!
Regardless of how agnostic, atheist, or religious we are, when things change in our lives "all at once" we tend to take a step back and think about God in one form or another. That there's a thread discussing this illustrates what I find most compelling about TATE's music -- the lyrics are insightful, poetic, and poignant. They can't be listened to passively. Honestly there are very few albums that have this effect on me. U2 Joshua Tree is perhaps the best example from a band other than TATE.
I don't think about any kind of God when things change in my life - everyone is different though. I have no beliefs in any kind of higher power - what is here is all there is, that's what I know and I don't believe in anything that I cannot sense.
I'm not purposefully restricting my feelings because of fear - was merely saying that at that point in time I could not bring myself to sing certain lyrics that may have had a meaning I don't believe in. Now, I'm not sure on their meaning (until Mikel explains) so am just singing them as it's just words to me :-)
you may or may not be religious but when you lose a friend or family as we all do we all look for relief in music, films or some other way this could be construed as spiritual as we never like to see anybody we know die where ever Mikel finds hes inspiration from JUST ENJOY THE MUSIC like most people on the forum i cant believe the feelings i have for the band or the music nuff said !!!
Hmm, which lyrics are you all referring to?
This, frankly, is all a little ridiculous. It's music. No matter which way you turn the CD or turn up the volume, it's still music. I'm the most agnostic person you will ever talk to, and I can personally say, it does not bother me at all that they reference to ('a' god, by the way). Just like I'd be cool with it if they sang "in the arms of a mother, a father, and Buddha." We all listen to the same stuff, and if you have a bone to pick with one lyric from one song, don't listen to that song. If you don't like anything the band talks about, find a new band. But if we like them, I think we should just push past all this circumstantial crap and just anjoy the good music.
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